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Reviews for Missing panels from Ultimate Spider-Man #59

By : superbang

From ANON - TVO on January 22, 2006
The stuff with Gwen Stacy was NOT from Norman Osbourne. It was from Mary Jane. Gwen Stacy revealed everything to her and Mary Jane kept it a secret for years before she told Peter. According to Peter she and Gwen NEVER did it.

Ok, this instance with Mary Jane "cheating", which to me is not cheating, was this before or after they were married? Did she know he was Spider-man at this point, were they engaged, or a committed couple?

Also, what Gwen did to Peter was DEFINITELY cheating. It was bad writing and storytelling to boot, that she had willing sexual intercourse with Osbourne, and somehow managed to be 7 months pregnant without anyone knowing about it and keeping all that a secret.

What's funny is, that Norman never taunted Peter with this. This is why the storytelling is so bad. If Norman Osbourne was the one to have sex with Gwen and have children with her, he would've fucked with Peter's head about this, which Norman NEVER did. Norman never even appeared in this story at all. It was all just Gwen's kids who were looking for revenge on Peter because they blamed him for their mother's death.

Anyway, I just want to see the next chapter of this story :) . Now that all that is settled.
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From ANON - Jenskott on January 22, 2006
Let's see... I don't believe spending the day with an old friend she hadn't seen for a long time is cheating or an adulterous date. But if you want calling it crappy writting, be my guest. I remember when the writers turned Peter in a violent lunatic slammed his wife in a wall in The Clon Saga. Crappy, awful writing.

But not so awful like Sins Past. What WAS Stracynsky thinking? Gwen sleeping with... gross. Sick, sick, sick. Not mention it's fully out-of-character. A retcon makes no sense -when did the pregnancy happen?- and trashes a character should have been left alone.

Anyway I'm sorry telling you, but that story didn't come from Norman. Gwen told MJ herself before dying, and MJ told Peter.

In fact the original plan was the twins were Peter's children, but Quesada didn't like the idea and the editorial staff decided they were Norman's kids. Yuck.
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From ANON - Kinky Penguin on January 22, 2006
OMG, that's fucking great! I can't wait to see more.
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From ANON - superbang on January 22, 2006
Whoa there killer!

I love MJ! I write fanfics about her! She is a very strong independant woman, vivacious, bon vivant, magnifique...
The thing that makes MJ so endearing is all the stuff that she's been through. And with ONE crappy exception, faithful to Peter.

Speaking of crappy writing...

GWEN HAD CHILDREN WITH NORMAN F'ING OSBORN!!! Disbelieve, disbelieve...

Had to be a clone or something. NO WAY! Why would Norman sleep with her and drop her off the Brooklyn Bridge?

OKAY... just did some research on spiderfan.org...

This "I slept with Gwen and had twins" stuff came from Norman Osborn. You're believing Norman Osborn. He had the Jackal clone Peter, Gwen and probably more. How can you believe something form a character with "The Gift of Madness"? I think its a load (and some writer dragging Gwen's memory through the mud because her death happened 20 years ago).

Gwen's death is almost as pivitol an event as Uncle Ben's murder. Both events brought Peter back to reality. Of all the Avengers, Fantastic Fours and X-Mens, Spidey lives closest to reality. He has money troubles, riddled with self-doubt and responibilities beyond wearing tights. Spider-Man got cocky. Goblin killed his girlfriend. Deep down I've had the suspicion that Peter never got over Gwen. Her death was because of who he is. Why would the writers trivialize that by having Gwen sleep with Norman? Bad writing dude...

That's almost as bad as bringing Aunt May back to life... to hide treasure away from Mysterio and date Jarvis. Why?

Anyway I just thought it was strange that they flipped MJ and Gwen's personalities when they went 'Ultimate'.

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From ANON - AgentG on January 22, 2006
Okay then if you can fault MJ for that then you can falt Gwen for SLEEPING with Norman and having a pair of TWINS! As told in a recent story arch so I guess you're perfect image of Gwen had to be shattered when that story arc came about. I mean if you think that was bad what MJ did what Gwen did was way worse, having the children of his mortal enemy.

Besides I've always liked MJ cause 616 Gwen I found too flat a character (but given the time she was created that can't be helped) also you have to admit after all MJ has put up with over the years, him coming home injured, all the near deaths he's had, the times when he was considered dead, all the villians targeting her like with Harry when she took up smoking cause of all the stress and losing her first born child cause of Norman and yet she STILL wants their marriage to work. You got to admit many women would have left years ago. You got to give her credit for sticking with him through thick and thin. Sure they had a seperation but that was after her plane crashed and she was kidnaped by a phsycho for over a month, the terror of what Venom did to her. I still have that image of her huddled against a corner all in tears from being so scared.

So at least give MJ some credit. She may not be you're type of woman but she's someone who has endured so much more then most have. Sorry I just had to depend MJ since I do like her character. Although I loved Ultimate Gwen and it pissed me off when they killed her off.
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From ANON - superbang on January 22, 2006
checked out Spiderfan.org, That sounds like the issues...

From SPIDERFAN.ORG-"Meanwhile, in NY, MJ and Jason Jerome are having fun. He manages to kiss her, but she falls back, and ask him to take her home. She's clearly upset, but with herself."

That's the write up for the 8 or so pages the stroy arc takes place. I think its the right one. In reading the review I realized why its bothered me so much. IT'S REALLY FREAKING ARBITRARY. There wasn't a good reason for it. She just agreed to go to lunch... carriage ride... tickling in shepards meadow... basically an adulterous date for no good reason. Jason Jerome didn't seduce her, he was about as straight forward as a shifty actor-type can get. They wrote MJ like a airhead, while Peter was amnesiac in London... UGH!

And this is also when the art was rather painful to look at.

This was just a bad job all around Marvel. There's no denying.
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From ANON - superbang on January 22, 2006
I'm not sure if those are the issues I had in mind, but...

Going to lunch with the guy is one thing. Going on a horsedrawn carriage ride through Central Park? MJ didn't shove the guy away at first. He didn't kiss her, they kissed. It sort of implied the guy was going for more. Then she shoved him. I guess other people could consider it not "cheating" cause they never "did it" but back then they didn't even hint at such things (good old Comics Code Authority! So glad they got rid of that). I've always felt that "cheating" was an affair the heart, not the loins. If your deep enough in a relationship with someone, you don't really feel a desire to sleep with anyone else.

Marriages have been broken up for less...

Anywho, I always considered it a cheat. MJ put herself in the situation and did it cause she was mad at Peter. When I first read it I was really angry at MJ. Peter cleaned her act up and made an honest woman out of her. They were clearly in love, so why did she do it? Maybe the writer was going through a divorice or something? A lesser, more petty man (like myself) would have ditched her if I'd found out. As with everything else, Peter forgave her.

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From ANON - Jenskott on January 22, 2006
I didn't want arguing about this, but since we keep on talking about it...

In Spectacular Spider-Man 166, MJ was in an airport and met Jason Jerome -a fellow actor she hadn't met in a long time- and both agreed having a lunch together.

In SS 167 he kissed her and she pushed him away and asked going to home.

In SS 172 she dumped him definitely.

I don't believe it's cheating. He moved on her and MJ rejected him. Anyway you can read the issues' summaries in Spiderfan.org.
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From superbang on January 22, 2006
TVO,

Mary Jane cheated on Peter with an actor from her soap opera named Jason Jerome. I'm not one of those people who can name the exact issue and number.

"Girl-Next-Door" is a character archetype for a supportive, sensitive, beautiful/desirable female known socially through out the neirborhood. Physical location doesn't really have anything to do with it, but in retrospect I should have used a different phrase.

What I meant was Ultimate MJ and (the late)Gwen Stacy are very similar characters. Down to earth, supportive... etc.
Ulitmate Gwen and regular MJ are much more likely to do things just for "shock value".
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From ANON - TVO on January 22, 2006
Well I think this is a great starting chapter Superbang, can't wait to see where you go with this.

On what you posted though. When did Mary Jane ever cheat on Peter in the comics? I don't ever recall that happening.

Also, the girl that lived next door to Peter in the comics was ALWAYS Mary Jane. The movies got that right. What else the movies got right was that she had a screwed up and bad home life, so she puts on a false exterior and acts like a party girl. That's where the whole "wild child" persona came from. Its not who Mary Jane really was. The MJ characterized in the movies is much closer to what was presented in the graphic novel, "Parallel Lives" which depicts the REAL Mary Jane.
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From superbang on January 21, 2006
Hey,

I just want to expalin a couple of things. For Christmas I received all of the Ultimate Spider-Man TPB and have been reading them, about I issue a night. I liked the reboot/modernization of some characters, but I am also a huge fan of the original MU versions. One of the "Ultimazations" was that Uncle Ben and Aunt May were clearly hippes, big ass hippies. Uncle Ben was supposed to be around 60 years old and the dude still has a ponytail. Having some friends who's parents were (and some still are) hippies they often say one thing and do another, marijuana being one of those things. (Free love being another, but that can be a scary sight...). I don't think its out of character for Ultiamte Aunt May to have a nightly constitutional. This could just be a difference of opinion.

Gwen. Gwen Stacy. Growing upo I had a crush on Gwen Stacy. She was the awesome girl next door that everyone wanted to know. A genuinly nice person, beautiful and full of live. They killed her. It was an absolute shock. NOBODY saw it coming. Characters in comic books just didn't die and stay dead, especially someone as popular as Gwen (unless you're Captain America's sidekick, then you're hamburger). Mary Jane was the bad girl, the type you didn't bring home to mom. Mary Jane is a much more flawed character than Gwen. When they gave them bothe the Ultimate treatment, they've kind of switched characters, Mary Jane being the All-American-girl-next-door and Gwen being the wild child. I REALLY don't think its out of character for Ultimate Gwen to toke up, early and often. That girl has problems. One of those being that the character reads like dead meat walking... (don't ruin it, I haven't gotten that far yet. but I expect Norman or Harry to bump her off pretty soon. They've rushed through her plot like crap through a goose.)

The movies and Ultimate books make MJ out to be a saint, in the MU she really isn't. I've read some complaints on the "Tangled Web" comments that people don't think she would do that when in the comics SHE'S ALREADY CHEATED ON PETER! And not to "save his life" either. But I digress.

Any way, thanks for letting me vent and enjoy the fic. It is what it is. Sayanora...

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From ANON - Jenskott on January 21, 2006
Very, very good. I've wanted reading a story like this for years, involving these characters.

I didn't like the smoking bit -I don't think it was in-character for Gwen, let it alone Aunt May-, but it didn't spoil the fic for me.

Please, go on soon.

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From ANON - Agent-G on January 20, 2006
Damn dude I've been waiting for a Peter/MJ/Gwen fic for so long now, FINALLY someone did one. Well that was a nice tease chatper but I hope the next one (which I hope you update next VERY soon) has it with them starting to explore just how close their friendship is. I can't wait to see how Peter most likely gets the luckiest day in his life.
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